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Diabolical Conquest (Travis Swanson): It's an honor. Hordes of bands think that cheaply emulating vintage Darkthrone and Immortal is synonymous with refusing to compromise with trends, and still others believe that piling on contrived gimmicks somehow equals "progress." Both parties make the mistake of using tired rhetoric to justify shitty music. I like Finnish black metal because it generally pays proper due to the oldschool, but still manages to retain its own sonic identity with no bullshit whatsoever. Clandestine Blaze epitomizes this virtue, I believe. Are you conscious of this contrast during the songwriting process? Clandestine Blaze (Mikko): In early days of CB, before I had access to internet or before the "explosion" of "raw black metal", my major point of doing CB was to compose music what I wanted to hear, but couldn't find. Now situation is different in a way, that there has been released insane amount of great recordings on albums, what could be seen somehow similar to what CB has done. But motivation still remains the same: to create music that suits 100% to my taste. Making shitty music is no option, making total clone of someone elses music or lyrics neither. However, I don't need to consider much of details when following this very simple reason of creation. It comes out automatically as it is. Finnish scene of the early 90's and late 90's are for me the highlights of the black metal in this country. We are still living in "shockwaves" of the impact that the late 90's scene created. Many bands starting now are influenced by those active almost 10 years ago. While a lot of late 90's band took very different approach compared to bands before, many of current ones again merely follow the same ideas and therefore don't often have the same aura in them. No matter how "educated" they are of the black metal. Maybe that is exactly the problem of today, the abundance of information and always narrowing genre tags where people create these very strict genre products which often seem lacking the real passion, beyond the fan club approach.
CB: This is the reason. As mentioned above, intent was to make music 100% for my taste. As little things as having drummer playing different style with cymbals or guitarist making some minor changes in intended playing-style may affect the final result too much. Band activity has some very positive sides in it, but I'm not very confident that it would be suitable for CB except for isolated cases like some potential live gig.
CB: Some of the best songs of Clandestine Blaze would not work so well live. Genocide Operation, I Have Seen, Ashes Of The Eternal Wanderer, etc.. The slow and monotone and most of all length would be high disadvantage in live situation even if I would consider these among best tracks CB has composed. Couple years ago there was few rehearsals with members from Incriminated and Satanic Warmaster as attempt to get CB performing one or two gigs in Finland. Shorter and to the point songs, which work with one guitar and are more aggressive by nature were the ones chosen. Like Psychopathia Sexualis, Chambers, Below The Surface of Cold Earth, Blasphemous Lust,. etc. Basically choosing also one song from each release, including some of more rare tracks not heard on CD/LP yet. However, the plans to play live was abandoned since then. Complexity of arranging rehearsals and the best possible line-up has been difficult. There would need to be some more members and I'm quite picky who I want to be even session member of band.
DC: Your prolificity in music, from black metal, to doom metal, to porno grind (Creamface), to electronic/noise (your Freak Animal label for example), paints the picture of an extremely diverse taste in music, which smashes the stereotype of "kvlt" narrow-mindedness in the realm of underground black metal. Which artists/styles do you particularly enjoy at the moment? And although you've expressed disinterest in black metal that dabbles in other genres, have you ever felt tempted to incorporate these influences into Clandestine Blaze's sonic palette? CB: I do listen a lot of different music. There are plenty of (black) metal, and that makes probably the 2nd largest section of genres in my record collection as well. The older I grow, the more varied the tastes become. Things what previously may have felt too difficult or challenging or plain worthless, may have shown proven to be good. I have no problem with narrow-mindedness of pure "metalheads". It is not my loss. However, a lot of people try to justify this as being somehow more "committed" than others, while at the same time when avoiding to touch anything else than black metal, whole thing becomes merely retarded single minded collector behaviour, where the true ideas behind black metal seems to become irrelevant and it's the music only that matters. Some people accept any rubbish packaged in limited vinyl, but can't find any interest within wide variety of music, books or art which basically walks hand in hand with true content of black metal. It just shows that instead of being committed to "black metal", it's merely single minded sound fetish. I think that in almost every CB release, some minor details are added in increasing amount. Keyboards, noise effects, slightly varied vocal experiments, guitar feedback etc. There are slower and heavier tracks, reaching pretty much the blackened doom atmosphere. I feel that reducing noise or industrial as mere sound effect of music often gets lame, where they seem to be nothing but "intros" while you wait "real song" to start. How to get the real nature of experimental sound to work within context of music is highly difficult. There are so many examples where the industrial music combined with metal results weak symphonic bm meets EBM style disco music, but barely any examples that would combine best sides of the genres. I don't have definite answer what CB will be doing, since as explained, it will create music suitable for my own needs. If I have urge at some point to introduce more experimental sound to CB, it is possible. I doubt the style will see extreme changes, but each recording will be somehow different.
DC:
True to the first word of the name Clandestine Blaze, you're an elusive individual, known for disregarding meaningless expectations such as band photos. How do CB: In early days of band, I highly disliked the posing of the traditional metal. Including black metal. You also have to remember times of mid-late 90's black metal when suddenly people for the first time had access to internet, and you could find vast amount of band websites where each project had only created logo, band photos and pretty much nothing else. Music was still non-existing, but the "image" was already done. I wanted to have nothing to do with this part of the scene and I was never looking for personal "fame". I only wanted to present the part what I considered was essential: music & lyrics, with the unnecessary underlining of person removed from it. Later on due to interviews, people have some idea who is behind the band, but I don't feel it necessary to start putting pictures or line-up information on albums. People should also understand that to say that first wave of black metal was highly theatrical, is only scratch on the surface. At the same time most of the bands presented charisma and personality. Their "image" was not separate "pasted on"-type of quality, but integral part of the art and presentation. In same way the Clandestine Blaze lack of photos or other such elements have been integral part of the art and presentation. I find it worthless when band used masks, artists names, stylized band photos etc because they have to: Because that's what others do and what often is required in some sense. When these elements contribute nothing to the music or bands character or/and doesn't show any aesthetic quality (which is most common), I find it failure. Some who talk about "black metal art" in their covers, but the "art" is on level of digi camera snapshot of kindergarten masquerade instead of real art, are among the worst. Anyone who gets artwork, photography or video to contribute something for their band is fine. Too often I only find it unintentionally amusing or annoying, which are not best qualities within black metal.
DC: You're no stranger to splits. With whom do you plan to produce a split in the future? Also, your collaboration with Satanic Warmaster ranks among my favorite Clandestine Blaze releases. Do you plan to collaborate with another artist in such a unique manner some time in the future? CB: I have no plans for further splits at the moment. I have only done ones with Deathspell Omega and Satanic Warmaster and as a part of "Crushing The Holy Trinity" box set. I have gotten several dozen of offers from labels all around the world, but every offer has been (and will be) turned down. With band like Clandestine Blaze, I do not believe that it is possible for me to join some "whatever" split or compilation project. All the cases mentioned above have been highly special and unusual connections between the bands. The one with Satanic Warmaster being obviously even more unique experience, since instead of real "split", it was gathering where songs was written and recorded together. I will not say splits would never happen, but they are not my priority.
CB: I think often the fierce high frequency screech of thin guitars can create raw or obscure sound for recording, but in other hand heaviness of bass and more importantly that being instrument of its own (which can contribute to all melody/harmony/rhythm), is often ignored. Especially in one man projects, people tend to be tolerably decent players of most of instruments, but hardly specially skilled in any instrument particular. Most often it seems to be bass, what those people forget. People who compose their music solely for guitar, may only use bass to follow the same guitarlines, without understanding that it is instrument of its own. It may not remove anything from rawness or brutality, but add some new dimensions to the otherwise very basic and simple structures of riffs. I'm quite sure there is increasing amount of bass as a instrument in future Clandestine Blaze. It has definitely changed a bit from being guilty myself of above described one man band "curses".
DC: Your lyrics express a strong sense of individualism and ego. Is this stoic disposition derived from personal experience, an interest in philosophy, or otherwise? Your lyrics are also extremely secular in nature, attacking Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Zionism in general. (The song "Fist of the Northern Destroyer" is a good example of this.) Has this ever provoked controversy among listeners? How do you respond to those who invariably trumpet the importance of religious tolerance? CB: Lyrics of Clandestine Blaze vary from album to album. I can't say that I would even agree every piece of lyric I wrote for example 5 or 10 years ago. In basic lines yes, and I do see the reason and point of each lyric made at the time, but it would be foolish not to admit some sort of ideological growth and development through study and experience. I don't think that there would be that much of Clandestine Blaze listeners who would trumpet the importance of religious tolerance. It is more that people have problems when bands abandon the safe accepted targets and introduce for example direct link to racial/cultural politics. They sometimes (or should I say often?) feel offended. To even touch the subject of Zionism will always remain stigma for band, while most of other very rough topics not. In early CB you can see the atmosphere being much more anti-religious / anti-christian, while later albums like Deliverers of Faith or Church of Atrocity is actually quite far from it. It can be easily seen as the twisted perversion of Christianity that taints people's minds to reject any form of spiritual life (that including also the minimal "brain work" and the bands or persons behind them are reduced into this retarded "fuck of and die", "I don't give a fuck", "kill everybody and yourself" teenage angst tongue-in-cheek bullshit).
DC: In light of the previously mentioned anti-organized religion sentiments present in your words, what do you feel about the belief that outspoken atheism only pushes moderate theists further into blind fundamentalism -- does this idea hold any truth, or is it merely a spurious pretense to justify ideological silence? CB: Atheism is often just as dogmatic as religion. The so called "religion of science", what has endless amount of supposedly intelligent followers. Remaining equally clueless, but having the superiority complex related arrogance. A lot of atheists connect this view very eagerly among other politics, and it's not a surprise that often the values what they hold dearest are like exaggerated modern Christianity, only with "god" removed from the concept.
DC: What are your thoughts on the"orthodox Satanist" trend rapidly gaining momentum in France and Sweden? CB: I think some kind of peak in quality has been seen already several years ago. Now we are talking about time when the "outsiders" of bm scene start to hear. Like sometimes it seems like NSBM suddenly now almost 10 years after explosion finally becomes "hot" discussion topic among people outside the core of scene. Monuments of religious black metal has been already created and a lot of now praised new CDs seem like shallow reflections of their greatness. I respect the originators and the genuine cases of so called religious black metal bands and I'm very eagerly waiting for next albums of all the essential bands. But I have zero interest, or should I say, I have deep disrespect towards the bandwagon jumpers and posers what always follows behind when something significant happens in the music scene. Despite I believe that person can be enlightened by content of music, I don't believe it can be such a mass movement as the drastic changes of people suddenly starting projects with gospel choirs as intro and few Latin phrases and bible quotes and try to give impression they actually would say something or believe in lord in same manner as the groups they imitate. I don't believe that man is able to get definite answers from the higher powers or even understand the mechanism or powers how this existence works. None of the approaches are worth of dogma or to be called "orthodox", but they are the path to the enlightenment; reflections from beyond and the worship has both spiritual and concrete physical meaning. Every religion and philosophy presents some ethics or moral values, when judging the band or person, those would be the only way outsider can make any kind of judgement. For example: It is really not my concern does someone believe in Christian god. It becomes my concern when their beliefs are manifested in this world as values creating acts opposite of what I would believe in.
DC: Satan is an avatar of evil sold by the church to the masses for them to have something to blame on the artificial guilt they have been trained to feel upon embracing their own human nature. All of us Godless heathens know as much, and the fact that the concept of morality has been disfigured into such a once-dimensional farce is what leads most of us "freethinkers" into moral relativism. However, many faiths that have yet to rot on the warehouse shelf of Western culture do not entail such dualistic hierarchies. Bahá'í-influenced philosopher Khalil Gibran once wrote (from memory), "Bless the wicked (evil) as you would bless the divine (good)." What do "good" and "evil" mean to you, if anything? Have you divorced yourself from these concepts? CB: Reducing Satan merely as an avatar sold by the church to the religious masses would be scratch on the surface. Existence of these beliefs exists in various cultures in various forms and long before the heavily organized modern religion and civilization. Moral relativism or nihilism is one of the answers, but sometimes in level of debate, they become merely confusing issues. When large part of people accepts something "good" and something "bad/evil", despite you feel the other way round, it might be clearer to worship bad and evil instead trying to convince it is in fact good. Rejecting ideas, but accepting term due easiness of communication might be worth doing, even if it occasionally feels self betrayal. To say that the black metal I play, is about triumph, enjoyment, satisfaction, power and joy and partially cold observation would be much more accurate. But I'd assume a lot of people would associate those terms with something completely different. They write horror stories of bad things in life. I write possibly about the same thing, but from totally different angle.
DC:
You have derided mainstream black metal for its slow, ugly descent into an escapist facade, while your metal remains decidedly realist. That's respectable, as it's painful to think about how the cold, nihilistic crawl of Hellhammer, for example, has forked into trolls and Dungeons & Dragons bullshit. With this in mind, has politics any place in music? Does political propaganda masquerading as music only feed concurring egos and perpetuate the illusion of freedom in a society in which the gap between regular citizens and decisions that matter expands every day? Or are political matters too ubiquitous to attempt avoiding? CB: I used to be much stricter against escapist approach, but sometimes it is too easy to pass judgement on content, while not even understanding yet what the content is. Symbolism and hidden references may have similar strength as the straight forward content. And in the end, also a lot of straight forward lyrics may after all be as distant from the acts of real life as dungeons and dragons. It's again more question of aesthetics, since same issues can be dealt by different means. At some point I was against the mundane politics mixed with black metal. And still some of that would feel out of place, if the people use medium of black metal to have pretty much insult the originators or black metal. That including some of the right wing material as well as the modern bm wannabe crust-punk sold to people as "black metal".But what can be worse than the idea of totally non-political black metal? In that sense we end up into similar politically correct safe dungeons and dragons world. People feel it's ok to write lyrics of killing "people", burning "churches", rape "Christian cunts" or some other vague day dreams, but as soon as you insert specific agenda (for example: kill niggers, burn synagogues, rape children) it turns out some horrible thing people feel need to protest against. As an escapist entertainment all the atrocities were accepted as "kick ass"-thing, but the line is being drawn as soon as it is no longer "nice" and it represents true emotions of intolerance and focused hatred. Which SHOULD be the key of black metal, instead the pathetic "I hate all equally" hippie shit you hear today in all the time increasing volume when black metal moves further and further into possession of the common music consumers. Any opinion or statement included in music can be seen as form of politics. If person is afraid to include part of his own interests and views within his art, because he thinks metalheads don't like "politics", it would be time to stop thinking of being somehow elite, when it's clearly the clueless escapist majority who already made rules for what to do and say.
DC: Furthermore on the issue of politics, Clandestine Blaze is often incorrectly labeled as NSBM by ignorant pissants. Do you have any feelings about the NSBM scene one way or the other? CB: At the uprise of NSBM movement, I was slightly disturbed when people were calling Clandestine Blaze as nsbm. Because it has never represented such idea in any of the lyrics or artwork. And I didn't feel that CB would be on the same line with many of the NSBM bands. However, these days I don't really care if this happens. I think that a lot of people have "matured" and the extremist close-minded views of what NSBM is (or could be) have proven to be false. Or many people will see that what is presented as the opposite choice for NSBM can be much much more ridiculous joke (see above question). Unbiased look for the realities of life and realities of fractions of black metal scene will easily demonstrate, that at least on a level of ideal, the thing what people tend to call NSBM (often barely anything to do with "national socialism") can be more fruitful than the "ordinary" one. And if one would have to make choice either the black metal teaming up with the VICE magazine reading hipster youth or the blood & honour skinheads, I think the latter one would be one choice worth to make. There would be the needed element of crushing bones and torched mosques, but the first one is where the money, acceptance and "coolness" is waiting.
DC: One of the things I like about Clandestine Blaze is that you haven't lost touch of the self-reliance and egoism that once fuelled black metal's arrogant stride. It is my opinion that if it is not already, black metal is becoming tame. Attention-whore Myspace kids are flocking en masse to black metal and sucking the life out of it by allowing it to be marketed to them, which threatens to solidify the memory of black metal as that of a mediocre hipster trend to those who will never understand what it once stood for. While their affect on black metal revolts me, I'm fascinated how humans derive comfort from showing eachother their wounds, like generals displaying their medals. What are your thoughts on the recent surge of American "suicidal" black metal acts who are dragging emo and gothic themes like self-loathing, depression, and suicide into black metal? If it is merely a trend, do you think it will last? CB: There has been long time themes of self loathing, depression and suicide in black metal. It could be seen more as reflection of welfare society I have said it many times, and I have no problem saying again: I would prefer and respect more homicidal than suicidal. Clandestine Blaze sometimes deals with the conflict or dilemma inside the brain of its creator (= myself), but it has never gone into self loathing or suicidal content. And will not. I have never been such person and most likely will never be. Healthy egoism and elitism is good, but I don't consider exaggerated arrogance as good quality within person or band. When we are talking about the arrogance and egoism what is born simply from self-centered ignorance, which is very common. People talking how black metal has died, or how there isn't any "true" people besides them and couple their friends, how everything released is pure shit and nobody does good stuff buy them (and maybe couple friends), etc. etc. While abundance of intelligent people and utterly dedicated bands must be greater than ever. It's so easy to be jaded by the sheer abundance of shit, that as security measure, stopping to appreciate anything or anyone, except the handful of influential bm heroes from youth when even mediocre album would sound phenomenal. Negative whining and back stabbing are some of the trademarks of black metal. A lot of bands were always, since first and second wave born out of reaction against other metal. Conflict within the scene may be one of the things what keep fuelling the next generations for new creative outputs. Trends always goes on waves. Many of them leave fraction of itself as established sub-genre of its own. I'm sure self loathing myspace black metal will stay here forever in form or another. Maybe in 15 years someone writes books about the "glory times" of that scene, when for specific audience it probably means more than 1st or 2nd . or 3rd wave.. or nsbm, religious bm or whatever.
DC: The consensus on drugs in black metal seems ambiguous. While Varg, for example, considers them to be a base crutch for the lowest human filth, some contemporaries praise their influence. For instance, Skamfer from the recent Swedish act Heresi has been quoted saying "it is always the right time to do lots of drugs and die." What is your opinion on mind-altering drugs, and their influence -- positive or negative -- on art? CB: The two guys you mention may not be so different after all. I'm sure Varg would not be at all critical against junkies doing drugs and die of overdose -> being good for sake of wiping some subhuman off the streets. But he might see the bigger picture of power structure and destruction it introduces to wrong areas in life when this is merely feeding the enemy. While the latter case of those Swedish guys (applies to most of post-Ofermod 7" era Swedish bm bands) is very positive for junkies doing drugs and dying just for sake of misery and death. At the same time, maybe the Mr. Heresi's other band he plays in, could get finally something done if their leader could get out of the hard drugs? I have to say that like within submissive self loathing/suicidal vs. homicidal dominator topic, I have hard time to be able to relate myself personally for the scum of the earth. But it doesn't remove the greatness of every death of the subhuman.
DC: A recurrent theme in black metal is a romantic desire to return to naturalism, notoriously conveyed by names like Velvet Cacoon and Ildjarn. What are your feelings about this? Is it time for humans to exhibit more respect for their environment? Or is the only thing we, as a race, can realistically hope for now the apocalypse? CB: Dreams about the fast paced man caused apocalypse is by people who have not seen the world we live in. A lot of places are still untouched by people and even full scale disaster would only destroy life of the welfare city geeks, but what comes to nature itself or humankind as a whole, it would have no impact as great to call "final solution". Nature is all the time going through bloody battle of survival and agony and even to get into edge of utter destruction would be merely part of its natural state. Yearning to return for more simple and more natural environment and values than the urban confusion, is merely natures favour for a man himself. Not mans favour to nature. I can easily respect the ones who feel need to distance themselves of modern world and isolate themselves to some extent from the failure of modern society.
CB: I don't think so many releases are that limited. Problem has been only with handful of vinyl records, mostly from early days. Most of the CD's (those which have constant demand) are being re-pressed always when needed and almost whole back-catalogue is available. The ones what are not, are often by bands you don't need to pay that high prices when you see them available 2nd hand. Back when the vinyl records were extremely limited, it was good amount. They stayed available for a while and none was specially "rare". There was less customers, less people knew the bands and also in early days of label, there wasn't such fast and easy ways to get information around. I didn't even have internet connection at home until 2001 or so. When "popularity" of some of the bands increased suddenly for more than expected, situation changed. It was mostly corrected with releasing CD versions of previously vinyl-only items. It makes getting the album possible for normal price. Generally I press enough. Only few titles run out fast. Most big pressings will never become "rare" in a sense of ebay merchants being able to make insane $$ with them. It is only isolated cases, where demand and supply doesn't meet and those who bought multiple copies are able to do some uncreative rip off business. There are different ways to try prevent this. Either be even more strict to whom you sell and how many or simply press more. I used to be in favour or extremely limited items as the era of bm was suitable for it. Now everything has exploded to something else, and making some ltd 200 copies item would feel like showing middlefinger to majority of your supporters. Sometimes making of estimation is hard. Record you think should deserve sales of 500-1000 copies of LP, it sells 300 fast and rest collect dust for ages. Some which you thought 500 would be probably too much, ends up selling 500 within days and there would be need for re-press. It is annoying to "eat your words", for example re-press limited vinyl. I have not done it so far. I have only made the CD versions of previously announced "vinyl only" releases because there was really no other option. But I don't think vinyl re-pressings are happening. Some of special items will be restricted 1 per customer style also in future, but that isn't needed in most of cases where there are plenty available and also people can always choose do they pay 12,- for CD or XXX for sold out LP, which both contain same music and art.
DC: If you had to compare the current state of black metal to an object, or anything for that matter, what would it be? Does it have a future besides entropy and fleeting shadows of former glory? CB: Already back in mid/late 90's people talked about death of black metal. Some already in early 90's. And people talked about it in 5 years ago, and they talk about it now. Still, during the last 15 years, genre has spawned intense amount of monuments of the genre, year after year. Possibly even more than before. Many feel that even some of the recent years releases easily set new standards for black metal music and content. As long as there are group of individuals who possess the original view to black metal, not some bullshit retro "how it was meant to be" copycat behaviour or the supposedly creative coat turners who ridicule bm by mere marketing gimmicks and tasteless forced/fake musical cocktails. Black metal in 2008 will never be black metal of 1991, but this doesn't mean it couldn't be equally good or even BETTER. Those who were not in the scene back in the day, only see the revisioned nostalgia instead what it really was. Picking up selected highlights, instead of full view. We need to go several years ahead that current state of black metal can be seen properly and from all this chaotic abundance the important highlights what in end define the state, can be seen clearer. Black metal could be compared to almost anything. It follows so much the general lines of music industry and therefore general lines of any consumer product. Youth of today may want the bling bling car, faster, better, easier, user friendly etc. but the true passionate ones look for the supposedly cruder model which holds charisma and spirit.
DC (Travis Swanson): Any final words? CB (Mikko): thanks for interview
- Interview conducted by Travis
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you feel about the contrast between music and image in black metal? Even much of first wave black metal is highly theatrical; Tom from Celtic Frost once claimed that image and music are inseparable. Do you agree with this? Or do you believe an interest in theatrics indicates compensation for a lack of musical substance?
DC:
Some Northern Heritage releases are extremely limited. Do you have any preventative measures for those who attempt to misuse your mail order system? (i.e. People who intend to buy a shitload of the same release and promptly head to eBay.)
