Diabolical Conquest: Okay, I guess we'll start with a typical question...clearly the forest has a dominant thematic role throughout the record, and obviously the forest has been a heavy metal fixation/preoccupation from the very beginning. I'd like you to elaborate on the significance of the forest to Kutcheck Gorealis and how it arouses the feelings latent within MPF.
Kutcheck Gorealis: Trees are aware and sentient beings. They seemingly occupy the same universe with us, yet it is rather difficult for the modern man to get aligned with their level... The modern man is too busy with irrelevant thoughts, a flow of internal blabber that blocks us from direct perception and more direct levels of communication. Actually, trees and plants are quite close to us and it's possible to establish very exquisite relationships with them. They can teach us the art of silence, and within silence lies an immense magical power.
DC: … and the record seems very intent in unlocking that power...in so many ways the record is like a journey...the further we get into the woods and the more illuminated the moonlit paths are, the closer you seem to get to a revelation. In many ways, I feel like the MPF record is a very hopeful record, you find strength and power within the forest, a real sense of belonging and hope. Would you say that MPF is in that sense a ''positive'' record?
K: It is indeed a description of a journey, or a series of journeys. It is intended to trigger deep experiences, going beyond the level of a mere description... to tap hidden resources and memories that go beyond one's historical experience -- to send the listener into powerful states of recollection, recalling something that sort of "always was there", one just wasn't aware of it before. The profundity of the experience is of course up to the listener. It doesn't open up automatically. Listening is an active process. I, however, wouldn't use the words "hopeful" and "positive" in this context, as they always contain their polar opposites. Within hope there is fear and the possibility of disappointment. The aim is balance. An exquisite state of balance in which both polarities are cancelled out and the such-appearing void is suddenly filled with strange energy and it starts moving seemingly by itself and may serve as a transportation vehicle to extraordinary dimensions. Regarding positivity and negativity, I must remind that a circuit always needs the both polarities to be functioning. Then, the effect is what matters... and it can be astonishingly colorful, indeed. In a very deepening way.
DC: Right, but the aspirations of the record, at least, are quite positive. On ''Journeying (T)here" you suggest that you seek to join ''infinity'' and that you have spiritual ambitions that go far beyond the terrestrial realm. this is a far cry from the monochromatic suicidal/nihilistic/''depressive'' themes that dominate much of today's black metal. If there is any pain on this record, it is not because of suffering in the mortal realm, but that you despair that you haven't found the secret to transcending mortal barriers yet. Would you say this is an accurate interpretation? As in...so much black is oriented around pleasure/suffering of the flesh...whereas MPF is fundamentally concerned with unearthing the metaphysical…
K: Pain is inevitable. Deep experiences can be ultimately painful, sometimes sorrowful and depressive as well. That is only natural. We are living in a universe that is in constant struggle. Self-destructive intent would mean giving up the possibilities of opening hidden resources... and they indeed lie here, in this world. There is no dichotomy between "physical" and "spiritual", I personally abhor that kind of thinking. What I am trying to say that there is infinitely more to this world than our socially conditioned senses are able to grasp... to go beyond that level, that's something worth struggling. And it's not something I'd call "spiritual".
Ignoring the physicality is just sheer stupidity, as the physical is pure energy at its core as well. So, going beyond the terrestrial realm? Why? Why talk about going beyond it before we've even tried to discover what secrets it may contain? Flesh is energy, too. We're just trapped within interpretations. And none of them are as accurate as the pure perception unhindered by the flow of interpretation. I don't deny nihilism, in the sense that nothing really has an inherent "value".
Values are created and upheld by thought processes. The metaphysical is contained within this world, we just have to grow quieter inside and open up, deepen. No, don't expect an easy and painless ride. So... Is it "positive" that a warrior just doesn't give up and drop his weapons on the battlefield, but instead keeps on struggling to achieve his/her ultimate goal, whatever it may be?
However, the album is not trying to communicate any kind of "ideology", it's not an object of propaganda. It is just a description of a journey, detached from any particular person, yet very personal for the one who is taking the journey. So, I'm not offering any "explanations" here, as there is nothing to be explained in the music...
DC: Yes, certainly, I can appreciate how honest and devoid of cryptic, pseudo-intellectual imagery the lyrics are...there is a very relatable accessibility for anyone who has ventured through the forest and marvelled at its mystery. You say that you don't deny nihilism, which is evident in some of the more destructive lyrics within the record, like ''Besmeared the Tunic of Honour'''. The nihilism advocated on the MPF record serves a grander purpose, It seems, though, to return to an untainted state, free of pretension and socially constructed complications. The MPF record really beckons the listener to look internally for all the questions posed throughout the record, instead of outwards. Is the forest a metaphorical representation of the ideal you strive for?
K : No, the forest is real.
DC: I think a lot of people will be quick to lump this disc in with ''Fran Marder'', ''Forest Poetry'' and records like that just because of this record's thematic content...but i feel like it would be spectacularly unfair, considering this is far more varied and dynamic, both lyrically and musically than any of those overrated ''classics''. There is a lot of tension in this record, a lot of conflict, both internally and externally, between the past and the present, between the finite and the infinite, progress and atavism. This is really reflected in the music, where songs go from calm, repetitious, brooding passages into very violent, totally dissonant sections. Was it your intention to make this record so ''tense'', to evoke this sense of struggle throughout?
K : My intention was to conjure forth a special intensity, different levels of intensity, and not make it one-dimensional. It is inspired by and based on actual forest journeys, not just daydreaming on an armchair (or a wheelchair, for that matter). And those journeys were, and still are, imbued with multiple dimensions, layers, impersonal strength of the energetic universe at large... But they were also physical, so it's a very wholesome unit of sensory data; most of it went so directly through, without intervention of judgments, so the musical reflection turned out to be the way it is.
I don't wish experiences to be distorted and dulled down by categorical indexes... therefore, "lumping this disc in" with some others sounds reasonable only in the very concrete sense of the phrase. Comparisons may be done, but they are never the thing itself, just general pointers. And, as a side note, I do appreciate the musical pieces you mentioned and I doubt they were considered "classics" within two or three weeks of their time of publication... Musically-wise, this album is more varied, yet consistent and not just a haphazard mishmash of different styles. However, I wouldn't judge it as more nor less "valuable" than those two aforementioned ones... Rhethorically put, what's the point? Yes, I am aware of the interplay of apparent opposites - thematic minimalism versus colorful progressiveness and so on. It just turned out to be that way, and I had no objections against it; such personal interference would have ruined the whole creative process.
DC: Yes, i know this record hasn't been subjected to painstaking elaboration/deliberation, but i can't help but feel, referencing the lyrics while i listen to the music, that everything just FITS perfectly...when you speak of a mist-veiled path shrouded in darkness, the music becomes messy, tense, as though fearful of what lies ahead...when the lyrics are contemplative and reflective, the music is far calmer (''to bequeath the tranquil waters'')...the music and the lyrics are ONE cohesive entity, as opposed to other bands where the two are sometimes incongruous. I have to say i really appreciate how the music is simultaneously ''spontaneous'' and yet so well structured
K: Yes, the lyrics are indeed an essential part of the whole. And many of the musical pieces take several listenings to truly open. I, myself, still find new dimensions and aspects in the music upon every listen... The whole is led strongly by a developed sense of... intuition. The structures may seem rather unconventional, but if you take some time and pay more attention, it's pretty well structured. Like an untouched forest... it may seem a chaotic labyrinth in some parts, but if you immerse yourself within its mysteries, a very fine order starts unveiling itself before you. And eventually you may find it from within your own being as well.
DC: Yes, the record, while clearly a manifestation of your own personal forays into the forest, prod reflection in the listener, prompting him/her to seek his/her own answers to the conflicts depicted within the lyrics. I was curious as to the nature of the forest portrayed within the lyrics...''Besmeared…'' seems to suggest that the forest is apprehensive towards human infidels...''Misantropical Painforest...does not know pity for unfriendly invaders''. Yet, at the conclusion of the record, you are clearly at peace with the forest, the fear and uncertainty on ''demons haunt this forest'' and ''winds saturate...'' seem to have been banished, and the second half of the album is more meditative. How does one go about trying to cultivate a relationship with the forest in order to gain access to its secrets and energies? How do we arrive at an understanding with the woods?
K : The forest is, of course, opposed to people who hack down the trees and otherwise threaten its equilibrium. If you were to witness some folks to come and decapitate your family and closest friends, would you be untouched and indifferent? I guess not. Each song on this album tells a different tale. It's not one unified story, this is not a KING DIAMOND record ha ha. I don't sense simple fear and uncertainty in the title track at all? It's about the painful yearning for Infinity and the true energetic nature of us which has been somehow denied from us... lost... and the impersonal waves of sadness that sometimes just come and hit us when we are in most receptive states of perception (self-pity must be dethroned in order to attain that!). And the pain of sheer beauty, heavy inhumane beauty that has nothing to do with socially defined constructs. The unexplainable beauty one may experience while remembering that we are going to die, and every moment is unique and vanishing, yet eternal. Yes, it's very confusing. Our wings have been cut, discovering the option of regenerating them is truly not an easy one to face. Hmmmmmmmm... No, no general instructions. I'm not a guru.
DC: i think that's really what i appreciate most about this record...it is a HUMAN record, an EMOTIONAL record, there is pain, torment, loss, contemplation, longing, bitterness, hope, loathing, far from the bland, aloof, disaffected pronouncements of much black metal today. As such, i find it very hard to categorise it as ''black metal'', because although from a crude aesthetic standpoint one might callously label it as such, not only does it draw from a broad range of influences musically, it is a very intimate statement that really SPEAKS to the listener, not something that strives to remove itself from the human experience.
There is no jaded condescension, just a very real, involving first-person narrative. The human narrator provides a very cool dynamic throughout the record, not only does it allow the listener to perceive things in an approachable, first-person fashion, but the human voice also reveals the flaws of human cognition, and how we need to remove ourselves from socially constructed modes of thinking in order to really ''connect'' with the forest. W hat i appreciate about the record is at the conclusion of the record, you are still searching for an answer, you haven't reached the transcendental yet, and it suggests that pursuit for this ideal is perpetual, that it is something we must continue to pursue.
K : Human? Well, at least in the sense that I'm yet to witness trees playing electric guitars and screaming barbarities into fuckin' microphones... Otherwise, not necessarily agreeing with some things, not necessarily disagreeing with some other things, I'll leave most ends open; for the end has not come yet. The Forest is vast, eternal. And the Forest dreams on. |
