Witchfynde Interview - Diabolical Conquest Webzine

Diabolical Conquest (Nin Chan) Hails, Andro! I'd like to first profess my undying love for “Give Em Hell”, which has proven to be one of my favorite, favorite, favorite British records over the past two years. While it is somewhat of an unpopular choice among Witchfynde fanatics for “BEST FUKKIN' WITCHFYNDE RECORD EVER”, I firmly believe that it has enthroned itself among the premiere “evil metal” records, right up there with the best Priest, Cirith Ungol, Sabbath, Mercyful Fate, Venom, Pagan Altar etcetera. Uninformed readers might not know that you only played on this particular MASTERPIECE, with Pete Surgey taking your place shortly after. What is your opinion of the Witchfynde material that followed your departure, and what were you involved in following your leave? Personally, I think “Stagefright” is the weakest chapter in the Witchfynde legacy.

Witchfynde (Andro): I'm glad you love "Give Em Hell" so much. I am proud of this album and agree about it being the best Witchfynde record. With regards to "Stagefright" although I am not acknowledged on the record cover I do play on three of the tracks on "Stagefright", they are "Wake Up Screaming", "Wouldn't Be Seen Dead In Heaven" and "In The Stars".

The 7" single shows Pete Surgey on the cover but he did not contribute anything to either the A or B sides in any away. I attempted at the time of "Stagefright's" release to stop it being sold as I was not acknowledged as playing on it. I had a case but it was not carried through for financial reasons.

I totally agree that "Stagefright" is the weakest chapter in the Witchfynde legacy and was the main reason I parted company. I could no longer give all my energy to such weak songs as "In The Stars" and "Wouldn't Be Seen Dead In Heaven". This was a total change in style along with some of the other songs put on the album that I was involved with before I left. I left Witchfynde in July 1980 straight after a gig in Wolverhampton and I have not spoken to Gra or Montalo since. Steve Bridges and I married two sisters and he is now my brother-in-law. Three days after leaving, I was offered the chance to play in another NWOBHM band, I turned them down, I didn't even get their name! I was contacted by Paul Gaskin who told me of a friend of his called Dave Screen who was looking to form a band. We rehearsed for a few months but it never progressed, so I started my own band "Malleus" which after a couple of years and three sets of musicians became "Sabotage" and in 1984 I decided to break up the band as music trends had changed and we had no recording deal.

In 1986 I joined my guitarist Gary Lorking from "Malleus" and "Sabotage" in starting a band but I was now Managing Director of my own hydraulics company and found that I could not give enough time to the band. I have since then done some sound engineering before finding out about the resurgence of interest in NWOBHM bands and Witchfynde in particular. I then decided to put down all the songs, ideas and lyrics that I had accumulated over the past 30 years. Yes! I had lots of lyrics that were never used by Witchfynde and along with my wife Shaz, we have written about 30 new sets of lyrics. In January this year I was approached to join a band called Ego Prime with ex Hawkwind keyboard player Harvey Bainbridge but I decided not to go forward with their offer and carried on with my solo project.

DC: I am but 21, so like a lot of kids my age, my knowledge of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal has been culled entirely from old Kerrang and Sounds clippings, accounts from old geezers, internet forums and the like. It seems as though the internet has been a significant factor in the resurgence of interest in the NWOBHM, spurring the likes of Fist, Vardis, Sweet Savage and even Witchfynde to reform and headline large European festivals. How do you feel about the internet and its role in sculpting this “NWOBHM renaissance”, and how do you regard the fact that many bands that once enjoyed little more than a cult following have now reached a plateau where they are playing thousands upon thousands of people? Blitzkrieg is one of the biggest names in this year's Headbangers Open Air, and Satan is playing a special set there, too (!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Witchfynde: The internet shows what the bands in the NWOBHM were doing and that it is still relevant to new generations of metal fans. I was totally shocked by how much influence we four lads from Derbyshire have had even on the likes of Metallica! I think we were all unaware at the time of how far our music had reached around the world. I only wish that the internet had been around in 1980, we could have conquered the world there and then!!

DC: By that same token, quite a few of my favorite NWOBHM outfits have faded considerably in old age. Of all the records issued b+y the old British bands in recent years, I believe that only Blitzkrieg, Legend, Sweet Savage, Witchfynde and Saxon still offer anything substantive to the public at large, while there are an entire host of bands who have clearly returned to capitalize while interest is still at boiling point. How do you feel about bands who are living of a name marketed by the internet, but have clearly lost grasp of the magic that once characterized their career? Do you feel there is any harm in blemishing an untainted musical legacy? I should also like to mention that there are a good many bands enjoying great popularity now who, in my opinion, are very overrated, while Witchfynde deserves to be as big as Saxon!

Witchfynde: Hmm that's a tough one! What you need to remember is that a lot of these bands including Witchfynde never made a penny out of their music whilst they were popular (and in Witchfynde's case still to this present day), so I have no problem with such bands trying to capitalise on their legacy.

DC: I think in a lot of ways, “Give Em Hell” is the most focused album in the Witchfynde canon. While “Cloak & Dagger”, “Stagefright” and “Lords Of Sin” are all dear to my heart (in varying degrees), I think there was a degree of musical schizophrenia that was more evident in the post-Give Em Hell records, with the focus fluctuating between burning hot, stampeding Priest/Scorpions heavy metal, dreary mystical Sabbath/Buffalo doom and fantastic sci-fi Rush scronk. Give Em Hell feels much more even, more cohesive and linear, much easier to approach as an album as opposed to a collection of songs. Do you think this is a fair assessment? What was the writing process like with the album, and what do you think you brought to the table as far as influences and musical leanings went? Have you ever received classical training, and has that shaped your outlook towards songwriting?

Witchfynde: The reason that "Give Em Hell" feels so even, cohesive and linear is the fact that even the song order on the album was exactly that of our live performances, apart from "Wake Up Screaming” and "Tetelestai" which were left off the original album, but are back on the re-released c.d.

The songs had been written over a long period of time and we had been playing "Unto The Ages Of The Ages" for over four years. The whole album had already been tried and tested all overthe UK! "Unto The Ages Of The Ages" was written by Montalo, Gra and myself mainly, some of the lyrics were written by Gra and myself one night. (we shared a house in Derby along with our sound man Rich) I wrote the slow bass rift and it gelled into the opus you now hear. Song writing was different for each song, some coming out of jams at rehearsals, with Gra writing the majority of the lyrics. Steve wrote "Pay Now Love Later" (who is now a Lay Preacher with the Church Of England!!!). Influences, these were many, we all had Rush, Black Sabbath and Ted Nugent, as influences. The band that made me take up bass and put down guitar was Grand Funk Railroad and their "Live Album", what a fantastic bass sound Mel Schacher had. I was also seriously into Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Hawkwind and many, many, more (I have nearly 400 albums on vinyl!). I have no classical training as such but learned to read music at school.

DC: Listening to a lot of NWOBHM, I think certain bands tend to sound somewhat dated (Grim Reaper, Tygers Of Pan Tang, Tysondog, Jaguar…not saying these bands aren't GREAT though!). Witchfynde always had a very transcendental, timeless quality that I think Rush (Fly By Night through to 2112) has. Like Rush of that era, Give Em Hell transports me to another plane of consciousness, to another dimension. While the lyrical focus really helps to frame and amplify that, I think the music would certainly have that effect even on people who don't speak English. Was that the intention while recording the album, to create something that was ethereal, otherworldly, yet grippingly dark and reflective? To me, Witchfynde was among the most MUSICAL of the NWOBHM bands, on Give Em Hell you really show that you have a grasp of LIGHT and SHADE, NUANCE and SUBTLETY, which is really fucking striking for a debut album! “Joan Of Arc” and “Leaving Nadir” are just terrific, floating, weightless, spacey, like diving into your favorite fantasy and sci-fi novella, and I am of the opinion that any lover of intelligent, progressive rock music would fall in love with stuff like “Leaving Nadir” given the chance!

Witchfynde: Thanks for the Rush analogy, what an honour as they were such an influence. I don't think we purposely went out our way apart from "Unto The Ages Of The Ages" to create something ethereal etc., the rest were written quite spontaneously. But I agree about the musicality of the record. Again I think the record reflects a band that had been together for the best part of five years and were tight and coherent.

DC: Of course, it has been widely publicized that Witchfynde were among the first purveyors of what we now regard as “black metal”. Certainly, the black metal of today is very different from what might conceive of as “black metal” in its genesis- something that drew its inspirations from Black Widow, Black Sabbath, Atomic Rooster, Bodast and the likes, then grew into Bathory, Venom, Witchfynde and Mercyful Fate. Do you have any interest at all in the subcategory that some claim you founded? To me, at least, it has become a farcical pantomime populated with facepainted clowns, none of which conjure the infernal majesty and otherworldliness of Give Em Hell in my opinion! What was the extent of Witchfynde's interest in the occult back in those days?

Witchfynde: I agree it does seem to have become the genre of 'face painted clowns' and I have not pursued many of today's bands. Witchfynde's interest in the 'Occult' was as follows:- Steve Bridges had no interest in the Occult whatsoever, I don't think Gra Scoresby was interested either, although he wrote most of the lyrics and some of the graphics for Witchfynde (he is a talented artist), Montalo was and still is a practicing Wiccan and I have studied many forms of what is now lumped together as the 'Occult', from Egyptian Magic, Clairvoyance, Tarot, right through to stuff that goes far beyond the knowledge of any so called witch or warlock.

DC: Speaking of that, let's talk about the Caduceus symbol that adorns the cover of your new demo. Of course, the caduceus has long been seen as a wand for sorcery, necromantic arts and alchemy, though it has also made its appearance in biblical passages and tracts (most prominently in Exodus, with Moses). On the back of the sleeve, there's a picture of you wearing a caduceus as a pendant. It has been associated with Hindu mysticism (Kundalini) and suggests spiritual rebirth. However, I shall speculate no further myself. What spiritual significance does this hold for you?

Witchfynde: If you look on the back of the "Give Em Hell" album sleeve, there is a red symbol under each of our names, mine was a 'Caduceus'. These symbols were originally chosen by Montalo and I regularly wore a 'Caduceus' as a pendant on stage with Witchfynde. I obviously studied the meaning of what I was wearing and the 'Caduceus' I found out was the 'Winged Wand' associated with 'Hermes' also known as 'Mercury' (messenger of the Gods). I was born a 'Gemini', which is associated with 'Mercury'. Having been able to pursue an ascending spiritual path since leaving Witchfynde, I find that the 'Caduceus' really does signify me and where I currently am.

DC: Let's speak a bit about the music contained on the new three song demo, “Bring Me Down Gently”. To my ears, the music is stripped-down, driving, riff-driven, dirty and catchy heavy metal. Great, tasteful solos, simple, unpretentious lyrics, totally gritty guitar tone, honest presentation. Nothing with the lofty aspirations of Witchfynde, but yet with the same catchiness and wholesome grit. Tell me about your intentions with this new 3 song single, who will it be distributed to? Also, do you think this is a fair indicator of your impending album, Dragonhead?

Witchfynde: My intention with the single is to only make it available through my website on mail order. I don't think that the single is a fair indicator of impending album, as "Bring Me Down Gently" and "They're Lying" are definitely more comercial than the rest of the album which will be approximately twelve songs long. There will be a considerable variety of material (just like Witchfynde) but it will be far more Metal orientated than the single.

DC: One thing I notice about the three songs on the single is that they are very insistent, urgent, chorus-driven, quite conventional and straightforward in approach. “Hell's Fire” in particular, is total detuned, midpaced bludgeon that really conveys the feel of its subject matter, a sludgy and primordial torrent of lava! “They're Lying” is more sedate, reflective, like a fuzzed-out pop song that isn't entirely removed from something like Vanilla Fudge or Blue Cheer. “Bring Me Down Gently” is blissed-out, elegant wah solos dark, impossibly thick rhythm guitar, lumbering, ponderous bass and innocuous melody…I really hate to say it, but the album actually has a lot in common with what some may term as “stoner rock” nowadays, but the end result is quite a bit darker and more foreboding-sounding to me, retaining some of that Witchfynde je ne sais quoi! Was it your intention to create something more hook-oriented, pop-structured?

Witchfynde: With "Bring Me Down Gently" I had the hook stuck in my head and built what for me is the most commercial song I have ever written. The lyrics were written by Shaz Coulton (is she trying to tell me something) and has become a favourite of a variety of age groups and people with different musical tastes. Whereas, "Hells Fire" was originally written for a totally different set of lyrics, which unfortunately didn't work. I jokingly asked Shaz to write some new ones and an hour later the lyrics were finished. The concept as you rightly presume was to paint an audio picture of 'Hell' in the style of a gothic painting. "They're Lying" was my first attempt at a solo recording and while again different in flavour I have grown to love it.

DC: While I am a great fan of the three songs you sent me, I have to say that at the same time, the drum machine was a bit of a turnoff for me. For me, the rigidity and the sterility of the drum machine sound kind of took away from the spontaneity and stark, pared-down honesty of the music. Are you considering using real drums for the Dragonhead release? Will you continue issuing music under the “Andro Coulton” imprint? What sort of audience are you attempting to reach with the new album, and do you think that old Witchfynde maniacs will find it of interest….or conversely, are you attempting to divorce yourself from that ubiquitous reference point (Witchfynde…in which case, I apologise for being such a wanker, asking you so many questions to do with that band!)?

Witchfynde: Drummers! I have so far been through four drummers since January this year. But, I think I have found my "Neil Peart"! I have found a young Polish drummer called Marcin who can play any type of music from Metal to Avant-Garde Jazz and I will hopefully be using his services for the album. I kept the drum machine on because I felt the time was right to get some product out to the public, before interest wained. I have registered the name "Dragonhead" as a band name and will call the band that I am putting together to promote the album, "Andro Coulton's Dragonhead". I do think that old Witchfynde maniacs will find it of interest as the majority of the new album will be not the same as, but have similarities to some of the material on "Give Em Hell". I am not trying to divorce my self completely from Witchfynde, how can I, when I put five years of my heart and soul into that project. I also feel that it's important that the fans see what I am capable of, if you like, a new slant on the old theme by one quarter of the original band.

DC: Going back to Witchfynde, let's talk a bit about the VERY ambitious scope of some of the material on offer throughout the record, stuff that I find almost unparalleled in the NWOBHM as far as vision and epic intent goes. You have “Leaving Nadir”, which rivals anything on Farewell To Kings as far as I'm concerned (and a song that I hoped spurned much posthumous interest in the Witchfynde franchise, considering Lars Ulrich included it on that '79 Revisited compilation!), then you have “Unto The Ages Of Ages”, which dips into tribal psychedelia and cavernous Hawkwind space-rock for inspiration, truly a fucking awesome, cavernous, mindwarping track that sounds unlike anything else on the album, yet somehow fits perfectly into the conceptual and musical framework of the project. The bass work on this is your best on the album too, LOUD and WARM with lots of great counterpoint, fills and great, gritty, distorted tone without sounding too muddy or dirty.

Witchfynde: Thank you for your kind words about my playing on "Unto The Ages Of The Ages". It was really only put on the album especially for our long tim

e fans such as those at The Brimmington Tavern Chesterfield Derbyshire as we never played it much again after we recorded the album and went out on tour with Def Leppard. Pity, because I loved playing it along with "Tetelestai" at the end of the set. But don't worry, my new album will have two songs in a similar style and length called "Dragonhead" and "The Archimage"!

DC: Anyway, with songs like “Unto The Ages Of Ages”, you must not have been very popular with the pundits who wanted shorter, more bite-sized punk-influenced bursts of heavy metal energy! Witchfynde sounded totally unlike anything else at the time, and like the best NWOBHM bands, were distinctive and completely unique. Tell me about the popular/press reaction to Witchfynde at the time…Geoff Barton gives a short personal account of his own on the Give Em Hell reissue that doesn't suggest that you were terribly successful, hehe…

Witchfynde: You were quite correct, along with Geoff Barton and his three stars for his review, we were slated in the 'New Musical Express' in a gig review of us headlining at the 'Marquee Club' in London. Comments included:- “Steve looking liked he shopped at Oxfam for his stage gear”. NICE REVIEW! The best press was by Malcolm Dome (now also of Classic Rock) in "Record Mirror". He interviewed us in the dressing room of the 'Marquee' after the gig and also wrote a fair review of the album. Mind you, it did not stop the fans buying it, "Give Em Hell" the single and the album maintained the No 1 slot in the 'Sounds' independent label charts for months. I don't know if you've seen the November 2005 issue of Classic Rock, but there is a buyer's guide to NWOBHM. Iron Maiden's debut album and Venom's Welcome To Hell are considered to be the classic albums of the genre, while the superior albums that helped build the genre are "Saxon's first album, Samson's "Survivors", Diamond Head's "Lightning To The Nations" and ..........Witchfynde "Give Em Hell"! True recognition at last!!

DC: How was your recent three song single recorded? Is there any advice that you can offer to other individuals seeking to cohere their musical vision via a one man project?

Witchfynde: 1. Buy a decent computer along with the best sofware you can afford in the form of a Digital Recording Studio.

2. Use good quality equipment and experiment until you are proficient with the equipment. Start off with a simple drum rhythm and build up from there. (you can always drop the drums out later, if you wish) My three song single was recorded in my home studio and care was taken not to over produce and loose any spontaneity and energy from the recording. What helped me was having Shaz available to listen to songs/mixes etc, to give a separate critical opinion of the music. (Shaz by the way was co-lead singer with Malleus).

DC: A final parting question: How do you regard your contribution to heavy metal as a whole? Does it astound you that young tikes like myself revere the Witchfynde singles and records so much, that you have been, in my eyes at least, such an integral part of that dark, infernal strain of heavy metal, that cult phenomenon that so many have termed “black metal”? Do you ever sit there and ponder on the fact that long after you've passed (Satan forbid), Witchfynde's works will still be out there, a timeless relic savored by heavy metal historians and a sizeable notch in the NWOBHM legacy? How have your musical aspirations shifted since you left the band, and what sort of path are you striving to follow now that you have issued your solo material?

Witchfynde: I am honored that young people such as yourself revere Witchfynde records so much and that you are keeping 'Heavy Metal' alive and well throughout the world. May it be so for ever! My musical aspirations haven't really shifted a great deal from when I left the band, I still want to play great songs with energy and honesty. Where things will end up only time will tell. I can only hope that you and many others will enjoy my new album and that there will be many more to follow.

DC: Thank you so much Andro, it has been an absolute honor for me and a great opportunity to gush about one of my fave bands of all time. Do tell us here how we can get a hold of your single, when we can expect your album, and how fellow fans may contact you! HAILS!

Witchfynde: It has been an honour Nin I've enjoyed this interview throughly and it has enabled me to speak for the first time in twenty five years about my time in Witchfynde and about my new solo project. The album hopefully will be available just after Christmas either January or maybe at the start of February, exactly twenty six years after "Give Em Hell" was released! As I have no record deal, I may have to make it available myself just like the single which is exclusively available through my website:-

Give 'Em Hell (Full Length, 1980, Rondelet)

Stagefright (Full Length, 1980, Rondelet)

Cloak and Dagger (Full Length, 1983, Mausoleum)

Lords of Sin (Full Length, 1984, Mausoleum)

The Witching Hour (Full Length, 2001, Neat)

[Official Website]

- Conducted by Nin Chan